Notice of Article Posting

A dialogue between former professor Sawaguchi and the seventh generation · Takahashi was posted on "Japan VE (Valie Engineering) Association magazine". When I talked with Mr. Sawaguchi in the former event, I realized the idea of speaking from the traditional industry the science of "unprofitable" by spiritual confrontation. On the day of the talks, the story continued while informing the factory and the garden, many empathy was found at the required points, I felt incompetence and affinity of the long-lasting industry and culture. It will be a long sentence, but I am transcribing the whole sentence. We will continue talking about such areas as what will be needed for the next generation. Please take a look._mediainfo








◎Japan VE Association magazine "Value Competency" 2017 Summer Edition

【Beginning Interview】
Deliver the value of the "tradition" from the local to the world

Representative of Value Innovation Research Institute
Waseda University invited researcher · cum attendant
Manabu Sawaguchi

Yamamo Miso and Soy Sauce Brewing Company · 7th generation
TAKAMO & Corp. Managing Director
Yasushi Takahashi

Akita Prefecture, southeastern, is Yuzawa in contact with Yamagata and Miyagi, winter is a heavy snowfall that few meters of snow piled up, in the surrounding area of ​​Minase river to collect snowmelt been brewing source, such as sake and miso and soy sauce is provided for a long time It was. In this land continues from 1867 there is a "Yamamo Miso and Soy Sauce Brewing Company".
People its seventh generation, Yasushi Takahashi is, dig the value of long-established has been stuck to the natural brewing brewery is conceal, by re-defined in the context leading to the modern (re-branding), which we achieve both of the tradition of inheritance and innovation It has attracted attention as. In addition to being responsible for tradition-based "making" as a warehouse, we also work on product development that excels in design, and also actively towards the world not only in Japan but also on the culture, history and values ​​of the land at their origin . These efforts have been highly evaluated, which also won the Good Design Award 2013.
Sakaguchi CVS, who is an expert in VE · TRIZ who is working on a new model of traditional industry and strives for efforts to connect the local and the world and recently conducts research on fusion of these with "unfriendly" It approached.








”Return to "Roots" to make a change”

Takahashi:Yamamo Miso and Soy Sauce Brewing Company was founded in Keioi 3 (1867) where the Great Government was held. The location called Yuzawa Iwasaki is a castle tower of Iwasaki castle in the Kamakura period, and then prosper as a lodging town. In the Minasegawa where it flows by soba, water transport industry and wholesale business are thriving for a long time, and the characteristics of the land called clean water and rice fields Utilizing sake, miso · soy sauce has been widely brewed. The first generation · Mosuke Takahashi established business in this area, I am the seventh generation who lives 150 years later.
However, I myself did not intend to take over my family business. I longed for an architect, I learned architecture at the university and, when I was on holiday, I had a bag and traveled in various countries, I was living freely. Eventually, it was time to think about employment, swayed between my dream and succession of my family business, and finally choosing the latter I re-entered at Tokyo University of Agriculture, after a major oil maker, at the age of 27 in Akita I'm back. However, in the first year I suffered from the gap between ideal and reality by grasping various things such as local, long-established store, and family business negatively.
The turning point was that I made my own pamphlet. I could not be satisfied with the design proposal of the vendor, believing in my own sensibility and making better things became a trigger, after that I changed all things myself.
However, even at the beginning, there was no way of thinking at the beginning. That's why I turned my eyes to "roots". While local brewers are going out of business, learn about the reason why the business has continued for 150 years, learn about the history from foundation to modern day, the culture including local climate and food, the thoughts of people , I built up the axis of thought.




 何より、昔から何も変わらないと捉えていた味噌や醬油造りが、実は先代や蔵人たちが連綿と紡いできた革新の上に成り立っていることを知りました。伝統産業でありながら、多分にベンチャースピリットにあふれていたのです。こうした気づきから生まれたのが、「Life is Voyage〜人生は航海である」という企業理念です。

”Traditional industries based on innovation”

Sawaguchi: What is the awareness I got there?
Takahashi: For example, while exploring about stock water, we met "Legend of Ryujin and Noehime" from Muromachi period, and we founded a company established in the Japanese garden in our premises I realized that the forerunners continued to appreciate the blessing of the water. In addition, the fourth generation, Hakushiro who is also the founder of Chungxing, went throughout the country to sell miso and oil and later enriched her life through traveling.
More than anything, I have learned that miso and soy sauce brewed which I regarded as not changing from long ago is actually based on the innovations cotton and spinning by the past and the Kuran. Despite being a traditional industry, I was probably overflowing with venture spirit. What came born from this awareness is the corporate philosophy of "Life is Voyage".
Sawaguchi: However, although seasonings such as kerosene and miso may be fine-tuned according to the needs of the times, basically "a taste unchanged from the past" is required, that is, the user does not want change There is a feature. Amid such contradictory conditions, how did you proceed with innovation?
Takahashi: Little by little, over time. Basically most of our customers are people from the region who have been using for a long time. In Akita long in winter, a large amount of salt was used for preserved meals, but on the other hand, the proportion of stroke was high, and products of salty lower prices were made early from the beginning. In addition to "reduced salt", the classic products cherish the old taste so that our identity such as "sweetness" preferred by the land pattern is not hanging.
On the other hand, I thought that I could make use of my own power was "overseas." Based on the question "How will local local manufacturing in the world be evaluated in the world" starting from the question of participating in various national exhibitions, undertaking a new product development under severe points there, packaging design, capacity, brand I also sought how to tell. In addition, through various blogs and online shops in three languages ​​in the UK, Japan, we have disseminated the various values ​​we have cherished to the world.
Furthermore, thinking that a real experience is also important in the way of communicating value, we set up a shop in the historic building of Kuramoto, and actually experienced the presence and atmosphere of local manufacturing, wrapped in scent of soy sauce and miso "Factory Tour" began. In addition, we also carried out renovation of the Japanese garden by ourselves, we also incorporated it in factory tours, and experienced the nature and culture of the north country which is the background of the product. These efforts became noteworthy in various places, and domestic and foreign partners who can sympathize with our manufacturing are increasing little by little.


最重要的是,味噌和醬油的建築,已被視為沒有什麼從舊時代的變化是,其實前任和啤酒生產商,我們了解到,它是建立在創新,這已經脫離不間斷。然而傳統產業,這是充滿了冒險精神也許。從這種意識誕生是企業理念“Life is Voyage〜人生是一個旅程。”
高橋:一點一點隨著時間的推移,它是。大多數主要的客戶是在社區表示願意繼續使用很長一段時間的人。雖然冬季已經在漫長的秋田使用了大量的鹽來醃製食物,而另一方面,中風的比例高,它已月初鹽少量產品。除了“低鹽”,以免被如選擇土地格局我們的身份模糊的“甜頭”,規範項目珍惜老式的味道。 在另一方面,我認為能夠利用自己的力量是“海外”。從這個問題開始“如何在日本本土世界製造業正在評估”,參加了此次展會各國,存在強烈的指出了新產品開發的努力,同時接收,包裝設計,容量,品牌也有人探討諸如如何分辨。此外,如通過英日在三國語言的博客和在線商店,我們對各種各樣的價值已在世界上被重視被送往。



”Inefficiency and Improvement”

Sawaguchi: I am currently conducting research on "unfriendly" through the VE Association of Japan, together with specialized VE and TRIZ. This thinks about various utilities (inconvenience gains) that make you feel lost in the inconvenience, but I think that it is inconvenient for nature and old-fashioned manufacturing in northern countries.
Takahashi: "Unprofitable" is very linked to what I have been thinking, and I am very interested. For example, sometimes snow accumulates to the height of the eaves in this area, people will not be able to do anything, and we must devote ourselves to unproductive work such as snow plowing and snow melting for a long time. There are certainly merits, but as a place to live it is not reasonable. However, people in northern countries have accepted this absurd nature and have lived.
Also, considering sales and efficiency, it is reasonable to mechanize and mass-produce. However, we have continued to make time-consuming and time-consuming seemingly irrational ways. I feel that there is a hint leading to the next era in affirmation of such inconsistency, irrationality / absurdity, and the attitude to work creativity from there.
For example, it seems to have opened a Japanese garden. As a result of redefining what was conventionally considered as old and negative as positive and transforming the definition, it is pleasing to overseas visitors and now has a big role in conveying our brands.
Alternatively, there are techniques that are often caught as negative in heavy snowy areas, on the one hand storage and aging of agricultural crops under the snow, storage in the snow, and ripening in the snow. We believe that if we can change the negative elements positively by changing the way of thinking and thinking of things, we can generate a lot of values that we have never had before.
Sawaguchi: For example, in the Showa era, the value of the "Yamamo" brand might have been lost if it was swept in the direction of mass production and mass consumption, introducing a reasonable production method. It may have been criticized as not being able to ride in the current time at the time, but as it was done without losing it, we can make use as the greatest strength now.
Takahashi: There are not only good things to say about tradition alone, but there are also many things that can be painstaking to maintain. However, because there are huge materials left by my father who was the predecessor, I can devise ingenuity there, and I am very grateful in that sense.
Sawaguchi: That may also be said as "inconvenience benefits".





”I want to raise the cultural standing position of miso and soy sauce”

Sawaguchi: As I listen to the story, I feel that I have continued improvements and innovations while looking at things that change according to the times, those that do not change. What about "improvement" on the site?
Takahashi: First, as I started the tour tour, I am talking to a craftworker who newly adopts, "I want you to make a new collection of figures like actors who are active in the stage called Kuramoto." In the sake brewery traditionally accepted outside people such as a tour and focused on Duji, but there are few opportunities for focusing on people and places in Miso / Oil Storage. In recent years there are also problems of insufficient workers, so I would like to improve the image and work way for jobs.
In particular, since the warehouse has little contact with the outside including the ultimate customer, in the last few years we have brought the warehouses to various events and encouraging change in the inside. For example, in March 2016, Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi head office exhibited new products and exhibited our history, corporate philosophy and product creation. Have conversation with customers, buyers, etc at these places to have new awareness, discovery, or need found out. I would like to continue providing various experiences to Kuran in the future.
Having contacts with overseas people through tours will also lead to new awareness. For example, in Europe there are cultures that differ in production characteristics and winery characteristics like wine and enjoy the difference between them. In Japan, there are sauces and miso brewers nationwide, but it is a commodity of "Natural" in everyday life, and because it is often consumed only in that area, like "Japanese sake" it is called "enjoy the difference" Culture is not so rooted. I believe there is still room and margin to explore in these places.
For overseas people, thinking that it is also a point of overseas development to propose suggestions that can be put on their food culture as it does not reach "use" only by providing traditional Japanese local taste It is. For example, we propose to offer items such as garlic, basil, sage, capsicum and rice cracker oil "Kogareko" together with meat dishes, pasta, fries and so on.
Sawaguchi: How are the products being newly handled as seventh generation deployed?
Takahashi: In this regard, we are proposing a unified concept and design that can appeal to all directions without distinguishing between domestic and overseas. Goods that are placed in a small bottle that got the Good Design Award are not supposed to be sold at supermarkets.
Originally designed to think about proposing a lifestyle on an extended line of meals, I would like to sell it in a place different from the image of traditional miso and oil, such as shops of antique furniture. Although miso and oil oils have been directed only to practicality, it seems like they can choose according to the taste of the room, such as "If there is oil of these designs in the place where you live a new life" I want to make it a product.
I want to raise comprehensively the cultural standing position of miso and oil. By doing so, I think that the value of miso and oil will be expanding more.
Sawaguch: Such innovative proposals are also on the extension line of innovation that has been continuous with the brewery's "roots". Basically, there is local manufacturing, and differentiation is aimed at by sharpening it. Furthermore, by improving the way to show and how to communicate, we intend to strengthen our brand value and totally raise cultural standpoint. It is wonderful.




 彼は、人類がお酒を手放す可能性があるけれど、お酒を造り続ける。私も、人類が塩分を手放す可能性があるけれど、味噌や醬油を造り続ける。「手放す」という価値の大転換が起こっても必要とされるブランドであり続けるためには、どうすればいいのか? そんな問いについて議論しています。

”Changes in technology and traditional industry”

Takahashi: Although the story will make a significant leap forward, I believe that "there is a possibility that mankind will let go of salinity" in the future. Humanity is starting to give up smoking and neither may let go of alcohol. Actually, the representative of Akita's long-established brewery "Shinsei" is the same generation and I am closely related to him, but he often talks about such a story.
He has the possibility that mankind will give away alcohol, but he continues to make sake. I also have the possibility that mankind will give up salinity, but I continue to make miso and oil. How can we continue to be a required brand even if a major change in value of "let go" happens? We are discussing such questions.
In the past, the cycle in which innovation occurred was long, and I think that there was not much to imagine "the destination of change". However, in the near future, advanced AI will be developed, which may result in 'super food' which can feel salty even with zero salt content ',' super drink that you can experience sickness without alcohol '. Before reaching a health-conscious destination, it is possible to send a signal that tastes such as ramen or steak directly to the brain while taking nutrition completely controlled liquid, possibility to supplement the image of "eat" virtually There is also. If so, the meaning of seasonings and alcohol no longer exists.
Sawaguchi: It may be okay with it physically, but it seems psychologically unattainable. Speaking of "convenience profit", it may be said that "convenience harm" brought about by too much convenience can be said. We get various values ​​through food, but from now on we have to think about the influence of technology evolution on food culture.
Takahashi: On the other hand, in the modern era, technology has evolved, the speed of improvement is much faster than 100 years ago, "The things that can be done in the age when I am alive" is increasing.
Sawaguchi: By bringing in various technologies, it seems that cases where users are unintentionally used by the user and cases where new values are born from there will be increased.
Takahashi: I believe that there are many such possibilities for miso and oil. In the future, as we increase contacts with diverse people, new ways of using it in accordance with modern Japanese food culture or overseas food culture are newly found in addition to how to use according to the conventional context It should go on.
Sawaguchi: A person who sticks to traditional Japanese food may say "Such usage is strange", but originally the food culture should have changed according to the times.
Takahashi: Looking back on the history, while keeping the thoughts of the core and philosophy important, traditional and cultural things continue to change in accordance with the age, the visible part continues to change, and the spread of diversity and values I was also born. If we forbid the change, there will be only a decline and extinction beyond that. Learn the background of value and how to change it according to the present age. Or will you make a decision not to change? I think that you can not grasp the essence of things such as tradition and culture unless you consider the time axis with points rather than points.





”Humans are made use of in continuity”

Takahashi: The thing that I think recently is that "humans are being utilized in continuity". For example, stocks of miso and oilseeds that have been used for 100 years, or Japanese gardens have been maintained for generations. I am surprised that I have often left such things in the snowy natural environment, but I also want to leave myself in the next generation now.
In addition, our oil and miso has been utilized for a long time in the regional food culture. In that sense, it can be said that we have maintained and continued the relationship with the user every era. I believe that myself is making use of various continuity centered on these people's feelings.
Even though companies think that it is the same, even if you think about your value without knowing your own roots and identity, you can not grasp the essence. Where are we coming from and where are we going? I think that you can think about the future only by standing at the past.
Sawaguchi: Everyday, even though it seems to repeat the same thing every year, the times are changing from moment to moment. We can not keep making better products unless we always use imagination and creativity. I felt that Mr. Takahashi's strength is that both sides have imagination that can respond quickly to change, creativity to create value from there, and both.
Takahashi: In the future, as the era of full-scale AI comes, human imagination and creativity should be more closely up. Traditional industry has been shaped by the continuation of the creative activities of the predecessor, but I can not go forward just by thinking it as old-fashioned, outdated.
If you realize that a number of traditional industrialists across the country "If you change your own idea, you can meet new possibilities", Japan should become a country that can deliver numerous values ​​to the world. To open up such a future, someone must drive a wedge. I would like to become that "someone".


高橋:我覺得最近好,事實證明“人類保持連續性活著”。例如,它是什麼100 miso-醬油充電已經使用了多年來或日式花園已維持了幾代人的倉庫。在雪深的自然環境,它會讓你驚訝,一直很好地離開這個只有這些,但我自己也想通過現在留給下一代。

澤口 学

盒 泰

Manabu Sawaguchi
Graduated from Keio University Faculty of Engineering, Department of Mathematical Engineering, Completed Doctoral Program in Waseda University Graduate School of Science and Technology. After working for a mechanical trading company, he entered the Industrial Efficiency University Value Management Center in 1985 and is a professor of the same school business administration. Waseda University Graduate School of Creative Science and Engineering Professor of Management Design, after working as a visiting professor. Concurrently serves as vice president of NPO Japan TRIZ Association. For many years, we have developed a practical next-generation business strategy and value creation design methodology for manufacturing companies' R & D and design departments. Specialty is VE, TRIZ, etc. In his book is "Introduction to Japanese style manufacturing engineering ~ Innovation creation type VE / TRIZ", "Creative risk management by reverse thinking" (both Doyukan).

Yasushi Takahashi
Yamamo Miso and Soy Sauce Brewing Company · seventh generation. TAKAMO & Corp. is a joint-venture company and managing director. After graduating from Chiba University School of Design Engineering, Tokyo University of Agriculture, Junior College Department of Brewing, after training at a major brewery company, it will be the seventh generation of Yamamo Miso and Soy Sauce Brewing Company, which is a family business in 2006. The innovative management that he worked on was valued as a good example of traditional industrial revival and received the Good Design Award of 2013. We have utilized the experience of traveling all over the world as a backpacker, cultural perspective through architecture, fashion, music, etc. in various fields such as management, branding, product development, package design.

澤口 學
工程的慶應義塾大學教授,數學專業畢業,學的早稻田大學研究生院與工程博士項目畢業生。通過貿易公司的機械系統的工作,於1985年在價值管理中心的產業效率大學招聘,工商管理教授同一所學校教授。創新科學與工程管理設計教授,早稻田大學研究生院通過客座教授義不容辭的責任。NPO日本TRIZ協會兼任副總裁。多年來,實用的新一代商業戰略為目標的R&D·生產企業的設計部門,開發價值創造設計的一種方法。它專門從事VE,如TRIZ。本書包括“日本式製造工程初學創新創意型VE/ TRIZ,”通過逆轉的想法“(均為Doyu館)”創造性的風險管理。

盒 泰




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